News:
Both Democratic and Republican strategists agree that the extreme dislike President Bush has engendered in many voters may give the Democrats a turnout advantage this fall. Though his overall numbers have been steadily sinking for months, it’s the 47% who say they “strongly” disapprove of Bush’s job performance that are giving the GOP pause, as angry voters are often highly motivated, compared to the 20% who voiced similarly strong support. By contrast, ahead of the 2002 midterms, those numbers were nearly reversed, with 42% strongly approving, and only 18% just as strongly in opposition.
The glimmer of dawn at the
The glimmer of dawn at the end of the of the long dark night
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 8:46amHas the slumbering giant, "We the People" finally woken up?
I sure hope so. Because if we don't take our country back soon from the fascists who are hijacking our democracy, and the limp noodles in the Republican party who are allowing them to, none of us will recognize what will be left or our country.
The "JPNs" of the world will claim that people like me, who don't blindly follow this abusive regime, "hate America". They couldn't be further from the truth. Many of the liberals who are so vocal in their opposition to the current administration are that way BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY.
Most of the right-wing-nutjobs seem to believe that to disagree with your country's government is equivalent to hating one's country. What a narrow-minded, ignorant way to look at things! If everyone applied that approach, we'd still have slavery in this country, women wouldn't be able to vote, sweatshops would be the norm in industry.
It has consistently been the dissenters in this country who have driven the necessary changes for the betterment of our country, and pointed out the abuses and evils of the past (and present).
So to JPN & Co... You want to defend and apologize for Bushco? Fine, that's your right. But I would submit that blindly following those that would lead you to your own destruction doesn't make you righteous, it simply makes you stupid.
And America ain't stupid, just sometimes a little too complacent. Looks like that's going to end in November.
God Bless America.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world."
Check out my blog:
http://truth-for-a-change.blogspot.com/
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By MarlipernApril 17, 2006 - 9:14amIronic...
those that believe in the Constitution and the Bill of
Rights are called America Haters while those who break
every concept America was founded on are America Lovers.
It would be nice if these 'neo-cons' had any idea about
what America is.
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By grunchApril 17, 2006 - 10:10amWell, you know how it is in .........
the Bizzarro World of cons.
They say they are for smaller government, and create the largest federal government ever, including a whole new GIANT agency, Hopeless Suckyourity.
They say they are for less government spending and then pass the most expensive, PORK LADEN bills in recent history...the Highway Bill, Military Appropriations, Education, Medicare (AND, at the same time they managed to make it almost incomprehensible), and on and on......
They say they are for personal responsibility and from the top on down, they rarely own up to their mistakes, much less FIX the crap they have created.
They said they would balance the budget and then gave us huge budged deficits and turned a surplus into a debt INSTANTLY.
They say their tax cuts mostly go the poor and middle class, and they DID NOT...not just the rich, but the SUPER RICH got BY FAR the biggest slice of that pie.
They said they were for "family values", whatever THAT means, and at every turn when they could enact legislation which could help the majority of families, they do the opposite.
So, as Bamba says, must be cognitive dissonance...or they are just lying, hypocritical bastards. I kinda like the ring of the second one.
But, take heart, folks, WE won't get fooled AGAIN. The Bush Crime Family, Inc. and their subsidiaries the Repudlicker Bozo Legislation Manufacturing Co. and the Neo Con Scam and Cover-up Corporation are destined for bankrupcy court. Let's hope we don't beat them there.
"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear."
William Gladstone, 4-time Prime Minister of Great Britain.
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By rocklibApril 17, 2006 - 1:53pmMarli--True America "lovers" below:
This is the list of Con "PATRIOTS" !!!
Links to GOP ChickenHawks & Convicts, Perverts,etc.
Pass it to VOTERS EVERYWHERE!
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
http://www.armchairsubversive.com
http://www.nhgazette.com/news/chickenhawks/barking_head_brigade/
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=...
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki/Moral_Values
List has HUNDREDS & HUNDREDS of GOP perverts.
What the hell is in that con kool-aid???
Buwaaaaa haaaaa haaaaa..... SCARY CROWD!! Keep 'em away from the children!
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By AfricaBambaApril 17, 2006 - 10:13amVery True, Democracy
Very True, Democracy requires that "we the people" question our governmnet, Im no expert as Iam scottish but dosent the American constitution basicly say that the role of the people is to question the government and if the government turns against the people to rise up and overthrow it. Governmnets run the country on our behalf not for us.
Democracy requires that we take part in the governing of the country either as a member of a political party, a member of the trade unions or lobby groups such as greenpeace or what ever you get the point.
People have become lazy and fogoten that democracy needs work from all of us.
I hope the people of America stand up for oversight in government, the current one party system is damaging to America and the people of the world. one party governmnets such as the Nazis and communists only harm their people and their neighbours.
What disturbs me about JPN and co is their unwillingness to engage in proper political debate and discuss ideas like we are supposed to in a democracy. He is quick to start name calling and slander and reject any world view other than his own without even giving it the decency of a seconds thought. Such blind servitude to bush dogma is dangerous.
We must always question our belifs and our belifs it is the only way we can grow and mature.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 10:10amI think the idea was best expressed by a Republican President..
Abraham Lincoln once said:
"Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."
He also said:
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it. "
If Lincoln were alive today, he wouldn't recognize his own party.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world."
Check out my blog:
http://truth-for-a-change.blogspot.com/
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By MarlipernApril 17, 2006 - 10:20amYip thats the quotes i was
Yip thats the quotes i was thinking off very nicely put Mr Lincoln i sometimes wonder why poloticians dont speak in such articulate terms now? have we become too stupid to understand such language or do we expect so little from our MSP's and members of congress?
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 10:30amyou cannot reason with irrational people
people who deny the obvious are irrational. you cannot use intelligence and get anywhere with them.you notice dems make smart and articulate statements and are met with insults and derision? that is all they have in their arsenal. they have no moral high ground or rational justification any longer for their actions. they clutch their bibles and throw stones. pity them their blindness.
If we are allowed to vote *properly* everything can begin to heal. If not, they will do their damndest to destroy the country before they leave office. Just remember as many dems have guns as do repugs...
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 10:11amWell maybe the best recourse
Well maybe the best recourse is to laugh at their petty insults and forgive them for thier blindness I suppose the brainwashing must be hard to shake!lol
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 10:15amyour signature statement is
your signature statement is accurate. they operate out of fear, and confusion, and ignorance, and blind trust. and misplaced loyalty. their party told them they are elite but they are only tools. and although it is *really* hard to be nice to them, since they are hostile owing to their insecurity, I think most of them mean well. they just don't connect the dots or have any sense of cause and effect, or the future. plus their leaders are overtly evil and they hate to admit that. loyalty is commendable but loyalty to destruction is irrational!
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 10:24amYeah but you cant feel but
Yeah but you cant feel but frustrated with them they only have to open their eyes and minds it isn,t hard to do. I cant understand why people just wont think for themselves last time I checked even the most fanatical republican wasnt a sheep but a human with a mind and brain of their own to take in information, process that information and come to their own conclusions.
Im just so glad we dont get Fox news in this country, mind you it would probably be breaking every media fairness rule in the book! Could you imagine reporting the facts! and having an equal amount of time dedicated to all parties? its not like America has many political parties views to express we have 7 different parties in the scottish governmnet, Fox would overload how could they cope with so many view points!!
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 10:37amhaving a brain doesn't equal using it
most americans don't even understand if you eat too much ya fatten up. tv made them brain dead. if no brain then no soul, no personality, and then much easier to tell lies than truth, to kill than to try to understand. better for those who crave power to placate them with pap then encourage their growth. if they were taking information in and processing it properly no way would they allow what is taking place. it is the greatest shame on the US, that we have allowed our own people to become incompetent human beings.
but some of us still think for ourselves! the secret is, how do you bring the backwards up to speed.
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 10:44amTo that I have no ideas
To that I have no ideas other than to discourage children from sitting watching tv for hours on end all day everyday, and encoraging them to think. That may help a little in 20years time.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 10:52amVoting
I am Scottish and have been here as alegal citizen for four years.
Next year I apply for citizenship.
Can anyone tell me if I can get involved politically in the US even though I am just a Green Card holder?
Bush has nearly crippled Blair in the UK though Blair is responsible for his own actions. Bush is turning this planet upside down and destroying the Great United States of America.
By the way, I am more of an American Patriot than some of the idiots I am neighbors with here in FL who would vote for a dead possum if it was Republican.
So any info on what I can do would be welcome.
More power to your elbow.
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By Graham7720April 17, 2006 - 10:51amwe have some of those possums in office here in TX
you can always get involved, work on grassroots level, help out for our good cause! hurry and get legal so we can count you in amongst us!
stop the possum majority!
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 10:57amread the 14th amendment
it protect the rights of "persons," not just citizens. one of your protected rights should be freedom of speech.
then again, there is always a risk when you used your freedom and democracy. some have to sue in order to remind the govt what the 14th amendment says.
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By mtmeggidoApril 17, 2006 - 3:35pm14th amendment
great advice
reassuring
graham
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By Graham7720April 17, 2006 - 8:20pmGet the hell out of the South
That's a start.
Something is in the water in Texas.
Florida? Why would anyone want to live in the swamp?
Get out of the south. That place hasn't evolved in 200 years.
They still think slavery should be legal and god's coming next week.
There mostly republicans and now mostly mexican. Nothing wrong with the mexicans they've always been there as we stole their land too, but the south invites this ILLEGAL immigration because they have NEVER developed a work ethic.
Because slavery is more efficient for the bottom line, and shit its hot out there.
Belle get me an ice tea please
"The Eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the Crow".
The Indian who calls himself "nobody" from the movie Dead Man
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By BastiatApril 17, 2006 - 5:10pmbastia---precisely! I was in Army stationed in Alamam-ER!
bastia---precisely! I was in Army stationed in Alamam-ER!
Yeah, they're about 200 years behind.
Mauri Povich,Archy Bunker, Hee Haaw mentality.
The RAPTURE Reich-wing !!
Weird place!!
But, there are 30-35% that are SANE liberals that are trapped!!
They should move.
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By AfricaBambaApril 18, 2006 - 9:37amYeah well it sounds like
Yeah well it sounds like Gordon Brown is more or less prime minister now (for our american friends he Scottish too, runaway the scots are taking over!lol) so lest hope he wont become a lap dog to any american president republican or democrat. No offense to america but I think we should be allies and partners not the 51st state of the U.S.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 10:56amWelcome To America
Graham,
Welcome to America. We can always use some fresh blood to liven up the political process. Too many of us are complacent. You can pretty much do anything politically except BE the President.
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By brasidas3April 17, 2006 - 11:18amPitty i bet graham asleep
Pitty i bet graham asleep could be a better president than the current mupet!
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 11:33amStudy of Bush & Con’s psyche touches a nerve
Study of Bush & Con’s psyche touches a nerve
Julian Borger in Washington
Wednesday August 13, 2003
The Guardian
A study funded by the US government (National Science Foundation and the National Institutes of Health) has concluded that conservatism can be explained psychologically as a set of neuroses rooted in "fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity".
As if that was not enough to get Republican blood boiling, the report's four authors linked Hitler, Mussolini, Ronald Reagan and the rightwing talkshow host, Rush Limbaugh, arguing they all suffered from the same affliction.
All of them "preached a return to an idealised past and condoned inequality"…..
Cont’d at http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1017546,00.html
Republicans
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By AfricaBambaApril 17, 2006 - 11:37amit's called pathological attachment to the past
tragic really and nothing new. all the great authors have been identifying it for about 120 years now. you see it in all fundamentalist cultures, including the US
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 11:42amI heard about
I heard about that,
Conservatism is fear of change and like it says below we all know where fear leads!
There has never been an idealised past, its an illusion of rose tinted specs. Every society of everytime is afflicted by social problems, if this study is correct then conservatism is a fear of facing those problems by wishing to return to a past stage of society that they oddly see as having simpler problems than those we face today, how strarvation and poverty of the masses is better i dont understand but nobody ever said that people like hitler made much sense.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 11:47amit helps if people are gullible
naive people will adopt simple messages dealing with dominance and submission. humans are primates and pack animals. appealing to baser instincts works. so you get a large population of little Hitler-mentalities (like certain posters I have seen on this forum lol). It's always more challenging to think through things and progress and RELATE to each other. until we rely on understanding instead of guns we won't get far as a species.
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 11:52amThats all well and good but
Thats all well and good but appealing to primal instincs to attract the gullible is not what i how i think we should encourage people to vote for progressive and liberal ideals but through enlightenment and people using thier brains to understand and overcome their fears. Then again maybe iam being to optomistic.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 11:57amHere in New England
We've always had a saying.
"There is something in the water in Texas".
It applies to so many things its silly.
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By BastiatApril 17, 2006 - 5:17pmA trip to the head doctor
A trip to the head doctor maybe the just the thing they need then!lol if only it could be that simple
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 11:50amA pittance will be paid
The two faced god Janus will speak through his democratic mouth and the public anger may be appeased. Two things ensure that nothing substantial will change. 1) Every single Ohio election law reform put on the ballot this last year failed (under extremely suspect conditions, but what do you expect trying to pass reform laws through the channels of corrupt elections) 2) virtually no safeguards exist to protect the vote against the secrecy of electric voting. There is a blatant conflict of interest between the corporate entities producing these machines, and the public good. I have been unable to find information relating to any corrective measures taken to close and wall up the “undocumented backdoor
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By gbonesApril 17, 2006 - 11:56amElectoral Fraud Protest
Not very loudly, but there have been protests about the electoral fraud in the last two elections. Basically they have been told that your sore losers and get over it, by the Republicans.
To eliminate any type of fraud what-so-ever, all voting needs to be conducted by an uninterested 3rd party. A Party that cannot be swayed by money, power, threat, backlash, etc.. Finding a party like this would highly improbable in the world, but I feel that is the only way to make elections fair.
Nid_warrior, I like the phrase, "Who's more the fool, the fool who leads or the fool who follows him?"
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By MalkavianApril 17, 2006 - 1:15pmthe fool who follows, to be
the fool who follows, to be an idiot is one thing to follow an idiot is just moronic
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 1:18pmI believe the phrase is...
"Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool that follows him."
Either way, it's a great line. Sort of applies to the goose-stepping cons of the world like JPN. I'm always saying: "blindly following those that would lead you to your own destruction doesn't make you righteous, it simply makes you stupid."
It's pretty much the same sentiment.
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful and committed citizens can change the world."
Check out my blog:
http://truth-for-a-change.blogspot.com/
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By MarlipernApril 17, 2006 - 1:29pmFear of Change
When the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change, the change will come. Change is the only thing constant in our universe. We need leaders who can grasp that change and lead us into this 21st century. Not someone who will suck the world dry, waiting for self-fufilling Armaggedon.
Now is the time for all good Americans to come to the aid of themselves.
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By pb_trueApril 17, 2006 - 12:04pmyeah heres a thought
yeah heres a thought assuming for argument you beleive in god and armaggeddon wont god do it in his own time? and by starting arrmaggedon yourself in the way you describe of self-fufilling dies that not mean its not the biblical arrmageddon because its not on time gods timetable? I hope that makes sense
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 12:10pmit makes sense if you are rational
but if you subscribe to the new warmongering apocalyptic christianity you have just described the answer to all problems! that's why they are running the world into the ground, they think they have an OUT when jesus comes to fetch them lol. poor old jesus is probably rolling in his grave lol. I don't think god or the universe wastes its time attaching to the affairs of humans. only human vanity wants it so. the biggest armageddon is in the brains of these individuals. that's where the chaos is.
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 12:13pmI belive in a god but to
I belive in a god but to think he dosent have better things to do with his time that worry about our fleeting existance and if he does I doubt he will be impressed with wackjobs blowing up one of his planets and killing billions of us and trillions of all other life on this planet. I really wish i could go visit my 10acres on the moon wen these weirdos blow the planet up to satisfy their fears.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 12:22pmThats the best line I've heard
in this conversation.
"God or the Univers does not waste time attatching to the affairs of humans."
Tell that to a southerner and he will ask god to forgive you. Bible belt freaks
After watching the Odessey this past weekend that statement makes so much sense. TV and the movies have done the one thing that they feared it would do. And the CHAOS continues at full speed.
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By BastiatApril 17, 2006 - 6:08pmThank you I do try!lol Fear
Thank you I do try!lol
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 18, 2006 - 5:36amnope it dosent now that i
nope it dosent now that i read it,
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 12:13pmuh well
i thought i understood ya! but i know what you mean, figuring republicans out will make ya go mental! imagine *their* confusion!
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 12:15pmI believe..
God gave us the power to choose. We choose how we want to treat others. We choose how we react to temptation. We choose how we want to live and raise our families. In America, our Constitution gives us a chance to choose our leaders, and to watch over them. I believe in, "We the people". I have witnessed it in action in city governments. We little guys can choose to stick together and have our voice heard.
Now is the time for all good Americans to come to the aid of themselves.
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By pb_trueApril 17, 2006 - 12:23pmyes but like gbones said in the above post
which is pretty incredible:
The vote tabulation software as well as necessary passwords and usernames are all available from blackboxvoting.org http://www.bbvforums.org/ cgi-bin/forums/board- auth.cgi?file=/2197/ 0519.html
for all to see. we do stick together but will our voices be heard indeed? these guys are the biggest bunch of crooks to have stolen more than one election. I have little confidence in the accuracy of vote counting. I miss paper ballots.
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By blueballsApril 17, 2006 - 12:32pmblueballs, yes
we need that papertrail.
I think I shall ask for a receipt.
Now is the time for all good Americans to come to the aid of themselves.
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By pb_trueApril 17, 2006 - 12:34pmIf enough get together then
If enough get together then nobody could fail to hear the voice of 200million pissed off little guys. nothing has stoped the people when united in the past, nothing has the power to stop the people when they are united.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 12:36pmIt is hard not to be angry with Bush...
I should be upfront, I have never liked Bush. I have always thought he was an over-privileged rich kid, who has never worked a day in his life and always had someone bail him out of whatever mess he created (the DUI, the failed oil companies, the baseball team, etc.).
But what really ticks me off about him is that doesn't even try to do better. He doesn't try and learn from his mistakes. He just keeps stumbling forward, prideful of his own ignorance.
He always talks about 'going with his instincts'. That is just because he is too lazy to read up, educate himself, listen to alternative points of view, and try to understand a big decision before making it.
'Instincts' are what you use in Vegas. When you are the President, you no longer have the luxury of guessing. You have to make informed decisions, and then pray it was the right choice, not guess then pray it turns out okay.
Bush is like a kid in high school, who doesn't do his homework, then asks God for the right answers on the day of the test.
I am not mocking his religion, I am mocking the fact that you can't cover up personal laziness with prayer.
Basically, I am one of those ticked off people that will be sure to vote in November!
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By dereklsonApril 17, 2006 - 12:51pmYour entirely correct
in your opinion of GBush.
His long list of non-acccomplishments and rich kid up-bringing is exactly why I could not would not did not vote for him, and talked my head off with family to do the same. And still they defend him on certain issues.
After a 6 year nightmare those that support him can't even see the fact that everything the Repugs have done cannot stand a test of merit.
In other words, as all you good folk know already, half the legistlation passed under the Bush administration was SNUCK in the back door because it could not stand up to the merits of a good debate.
Medicare prescription Drug plan. Total scam
Energy (plunder) Bill. Pure hipocracy
Enviromental protection. For who? Not americans.
Arctic oil drilling. Still being shoved down our throats through bullying and misleading manipulation of the legislative process. BULLSHIT!!!
To pissed to keep going.
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By BastiatApril 17, 2006 - 6:22pmMaybe he gets a kick out of
Maybe he gets a kick out of making guesses and seeing what happens. The stakes are very high, maybe every time he makes a gut decision he get an adrenaline rush from the thrill of not knowing what will happen next.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate,
hate leads to suffering... its amazing how right a small green dude is!
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By Nid_warriorApril 17, 2006 - 1:09pmIt's about time
it's about time voters get mad! I've been mad since 2000. Hopefully the Dem establishment will realize we need a strong candidate to fan the flames of our anger come '08. With luck the anger will hold through the '06 election bringing us control over at least one of the houses (barring more diebold debacles).
We need to stay mad and incite others to join the rage, the greatness that is the USA is being tortured to death each day the neo-con fascists keep control.
Stay strong people,
M_A
I don't have issues...I have the whole bloody subscription!
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By militant_atheistApril 17, 2006 - 1:57pmCase Proven
Another validation of my point….You imbeciles are still pissed about the 2000 election…that’s all it is…you lost…and still can’t accept it. Well get used to it…your party is nothing but a bunch of whiners and complainers…They have no ideas except “take the money from these people….and give it to these people
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By trickydickApril 17, 2006 - 3:03pmWell, taking a look at....
........last five years, if you AREN'T pissed off, you aren't paying attention. I was pissed that the President was selected rather than elected.
As far as the charge of whining, I would argue that an overview of the posts on this site would indicate that it's the cons who whine and get all riled up because people apply rational thought and historical data to back up our contentions that the Rapepudlicker Party is out of control and needs to be put back in the box.
And as far as having ideas.....I haven't heard ANYTHING from the Cons about how they would fix the problems, because they won't admit to having screwed anything up. They think that record budget AND trade deficits are ok, 'cause their beloved Reichfurher Bushbaby ok's them. This "cult of personality" allowing the destruction of the principles this country was built on, and on which a strong middle class was built upon.....the irony is that most of the cons here are MIDDLE CLASS......they are eagerly enabling the people who are actively making their way of life untenable. Self-destruction is neurotic, or psychotic. And if it was just THEM, then ok, go for it....but they intend to have us all to follow them over the precipice. Just say NO. No farther.
"Liberalism is trust of the people tempered by prudence. Conservatism is distrust of the people tempered by fear."
William Gladstone, 4-time Prime Minister of Great Britain.
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By rocklibApril 17, 2006 - 3:13pmANOTHER study confirms "whiny babies" are conservative
How to spot a baby conservative
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/A...
KID POLITICS | Whiny children, claims a new study, tend to grow up rigid and traditional ...
Mar. 19, 2006. 10:45 AM
KURT KLEINER
SPECIAL TO THE STAR --- TORONTO STAR
Remember the whiny, insecure kid in nursery school, the one who always thought everyone was out to get him, and was always running to the teacher with complaints? Chances are he grew up to be a conservative.
At least, he did if he was one of 95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.
The study from the Journal of Research Into Personality isn't going to make the UC Berkeley professor who published it any friends on the right. Similar conclusions a few years ago from another academic saw him excoriated on right-wing blogs, and even led to a Congressional investigation into his research funding.
But the new results are worth a look. In the 1960s Jack Block and his wife and fellow professor Jeanne Block (now deceased) began tracking more than 100 nursery school kids as part of a general study of personality. The kids' personalities were rated at the time by teachers and assistants who had known them for months. There's no reason to think political bias skewed the ratings — the investigators were not looking at political orientation back then. Even if they had been, it's unlikely that 3- and 4-year-olds would have had much idea about their political leanings.
A few decades later, Block followed up with more surveys, looking again at personality, and this time at politics, too. The whiny kids tended to grow up conservative, and turned into rigid young adults who hewed closely to traditional gender roles and were uncomfortable with ambiguity.
The confident kids turned out liberal and were still hanging loose, turning into bright, non-conforming adults with wide interests. The girls were still outgoing, but the young men tended to turn a little introspective.
Block admits in his paper that liberal Berkeley is not representative of the whole country. But within his sample, he says, the results hold. He reasons that insecure kids look for the reassurance provided by tradition and authority, and find it in conservative politics. The more confident kids are eager to explore alternatives to the way things are, and find liberal politics more congenial.
In a society that values self-confidence and out-goingness, it's a mostly flattering picture for liberals. It also runs contrary to the American stereotype of wimpy liberals and strong conservatives.
Of course, if you're studying the psychology of politics, you shouldn't be surprised to get a political reaction. Similar work by John T. Jost of Stanford and colleagues in 2003 drew a political backlash. The researchers reviewed 44 years worth of studies into the psychology of conservatism, and concluded that people who are dogmatic, fearful, intolerant of ambiguity and uncertainty, and who crave order and structure are more likely to gravitate to conservatism. Critics branded it the "conservatives are crazy" study and accused the authors of a political bias.
Jost welcomed the new study, saying it lends support to his conclusions. But Jeff Greenberg, a social psychologist at the University of Arizona who was critical of Jost's study, was less impressed.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
`I found (the Jack Block study) to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best'
Jeff Greenberg
University of Arizona
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I found it to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best," he said of the Block study. He thinks insecure, defensive, rigid people can as easily gravitate to left-wing ideologies as right-wing ones. He suspects that in Communist China, those kinds of people would likely become fervid party members.
The results do raise some obvious questions. Are nursery school teachers in the conservative heartland cursed with classes filled with little proto-conservative whiners?
Or does an insecure little boy raised in Idaho or Alberta surrounded by conservatives turn instead to liberalism?
Or do the whiny kids grow up conservative along with the majority of their more confident peers, while only the kids with poor impulse control turn liberal?
Part of the answer is that personality is not the only factor that determines political leanings. For instance, there was a .27 correlation between being self-reliant in nursery school and being a liberal as an adult. Another way of saying it is that self-reliance predicts statistically about 7 per cent of the variance between kids who became liberal and those who became conservative. (If every self-reliant kid became a liberal and none became conservatives, it would predict 100 per cent of the variance). Seven per cent is fairly strong for social science, but it still leaves an awful lot of room for other influences, such as friends, family, education, personal experience and plain old intellect.
For conservatives whose feelings are still hurt, there is a more flattering way for them to look at the results. Even if they really did tend to be insecure complainers as kids, they might simply have recognized that the world is a scary, unfair place.
Their grown-up conclusion that the safest thing is to stick to tradition could well be the right one. As for their "rigidity," maybe that's just moral certainty.
The grown-up liberal men, on the other hand, with their introspection and recognition of complexity in the world, could be seen as self-indulgent and ineffectual.
Whether anyone's feelings are hurt or not, the work suggests that personality and emotions play a bigger role in our political leanings than we think. All of us, liberal or conservative, feel as though we've reached our political opinions by carefully weighing the evidence and exercising our best judgment. But it could be that all of that careful reasoning is just after-the-fact self-justification. What if personality forms our political outlook, with reason coming along behind, rationalizing after the fact?
It could be that whom we vote for has less to do with our judgments about tax policy or free trade or health care, and more with the personalities we've been stuck with since we were kids.
Kurt Kleiner is a Toronto-based science writer
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By AfricaBambaApril 17, 2006 - 5:28pmExcellent post AB
That was a good read and I am now going to cook dinner for my beautiful wife.
I alway wondered how I became a progressive liberal. I took one of those test and it catorgorized me as Libertarian, and I had to wonder about what that really meant. Well, self anylising is not my thing, but a little self knowledge mixed in does help.
At 14 I had a job with the Federal Gov. The American Youth Conservation Corps. We built a National Park over the summer. Six hours a day of outdoor work building trails, steps, erosion controll and trail signs. Two hours of enviromental education. It sticks with me to this day.
I also spent 7 years working for a defense contractor building Tactical Air Defense Systems, TADS, Sidewinders, Amramm etc.. during the Reagan years. I quit in disgust at the waste and work ethics of my fellow workers. Quite a lot of people at that plant just didn' give a shit, and I took it personally having 2 Two cousins in the Army. Who just got home from IRAQ for the 6th time.
'nough about me, my sister turned out to be a staunch republican alongside her husband whose a banker. Both are college educated as am I, but the differences between us is now astounding. I took the road of non-conformist and she the "get in line conformist" "why should I care I'm not doing anything wrong" "get a job or move to Europe" road.
How this happens is very interesting thanks for the post as usually
you are "the educator".
Peace, >}}}}}}}}}}}}'>
Shut the TV off and take a kid fishing
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By BastiatApril 17, 2006 - 6:48pmBastia--Give a copy to your "banker" brother-in-law....
WHAT HAS GOP DONE FOR CITIZENS & WORKERS?
Author is Mayor and former Savings & Loan executive in Oklahoma.
Not too long ago, my wife and I attended a TV football
party in south Tulsa. With a lopsided score, the
conversation turned to a livelier subject -- politics. The
crowd was, of course, top-heavy with Republicans. With each
point expressed their faces became more flushed, eyes
bulging a little more and veins popping in their foreheads
as they railed against the liberal programs.
Finally a lone, liberal voice asked: "Will you people
name me one bill your party ever passed to help the working
man of this country?" The question created much din and
clamor, and someone sputtered, "Well, what have the
Democrats done?"
The liberal responded with a few programs and was
interrupted by howling and disdain. He noted that he had
not promised they would like the programs and he asked to
complete his statement -- a difficult task to ask of
Republicans.
He spoke of FDR's New Deal programs ( Father of modern liberalism) and other subsequent democratic programs by LBJ and JKF, ie: Social Security; Medicare-Medicaid; Peace
Corps; unemployment insurance; welfare (for the poor and
corporate); civil rights; student grant and loan programs;
safety laws (OSHA); environmental laws; prevailing wage
laws; right to collective bargaining (which brought about
paid medical insurance, paid vacations, pensions, etc.);
workers' compensation; Marshall Plan; flood-disaster
insurance; School Lunch Program; women's rights.
He spoke of the Fair Labor Standards Act, which
established a minimum wage, instituted child labor laws,
and set up time-and-a-half pay for over a 40-hour week.
He mentioned FHA-HUD with its public housing, urban
renewal and 44 million residential homes (before WWII
almost 70 percent of our nation were renters; by the 1970s
this had been reversed). And farm-conservation
subsidies -- USDA programs, Farmers Home Administration (the
bankers didn't want to make rural loans), small
flood-control lakes (more than 3,000 in Oklahoma alone),
rural water districts, rural electricity (REA).
The GI Bill was passed, which the Republicans at the
time bitterly opposed. They were salivating over millions
of returning veterans to hire as cheap labor. More than 8
million have used college benefits, creating millions of
entrepreneurs; most of us had never dreamed of college. For
the unemployed GI, there was $20 a week for 52 weeks to
help get started (a lot of money in those days). The
Veterans Administration provided more than 2 million home
loans.
For the bankers at the football party, it was pointed
out that the liberals saved their industry with the
creation of FDIC and FSLIC, insuring their deposits, and
saved Wall Street with the establishment of the Securities
Exchange Commission.
The oil men came on bended knees to FDR at a time when
East Texas oil was 4 cents a barrel and begged him to save
their industry. He did; prorationing overturned the rule of
capture and the days of flush production were over.
Prorating has served this great industry (and nation)
well.
And the list went on and on, but of course this group
didn't let him get halfway through. He noted they were
weary, inattentive, so again he challenged them to offer up
any Republican legislation examples.
"I'm sure your party has authored one or two comparable
bills from time to time, but I can't think of any, and
apparently you can't either. What it boils down to is this:
the liberals dragged you into the 20th century scratching
and screaming with your heels in the mud, fighting anything
that's progressive, everything that's made this country
great. You Republicans have never understood that the
spending power of blue-collar workers, obtained through
Democrats and unions, is what really made this country
great. You really believe "The Good Life" was obtained from
your own endeavors. You cloak your greed in religion and
patriotism, railing against any form of tax, never
comprehending that these programs have benefited all of us
and our country."
Well, I almost didn't make it out of the house. My wife
and I didn't even get to see the end of the football game.
If Reps. Steve Largent or J.C. Watts had been there,
perhaps politics would never have come up, only the game
plan ... pity.
Author is Mayor and former Savings & Loan executive in Oklahoma.
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By AfricaBambaApril 18, 2006 - 10:08amAnd in November..
How long will you be mad when the Dems take back the House and Senate and your Pres becomes a lame duck? Once November has come and gone the next site is 2008 where the lame duck gets served for Christmas dinner.
Lead, Follow, or Get the hell out of the way, spoken like a person driving an SUV to big for the road that has no reason to be driving one, and just ran over the family of 4 in the Ford focus thinking it was a speed bump.
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By MalkavianApril 17, 2006 - 3:23pmbush is taking money from our grandkids
and giving it to the military industrial complex which is also a pay off.
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By mtmeggidoApril 17, 2006 - 3:42pmrepubs whine
about us whining.
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By mtmeggidoApril 17, 2006 - 3:42pmah yes
The typical fascist statement "you guys are poor losers" wake up dicky, Gore won the popular vote and the proof is coming to light how the florida counts were highjacked...by the repubinazis. Thanks for the comic relief!
Stay strong people!
M_A
I don't have issues...I have the whole bloody subscription!
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By militant_atheistApril 17, 2006 - 4:52pmHow to spot a baby conservative. ANOTHER scientific study!
TrickSY---You pussies are outed !!! Even science confirms it Buwwaaaa haaa haaaaaa. Hey, you still haven't answerd. What's a DD214? C'mon ChickenHawk!!!
Have fun reading below. he he he he
How to spot a baby conservative
http://www.thestar.com/ NASApp/cs/ContentServer? pagename=thestar/Layout/ Article_Type1& call_pageid=971358637177& c=Article& cid=1142722231554
KID POLITICS | Whiny children, claims a new study, tend to grow up rigid and traditional....
Mar. 19, 2006. 10:45 AM
KURT KLEINER
SPECIAL TO THE STAR --- TORONTO STAR
Remember the whiny, insecure kid in nursery school, the one who always thought everyone was out to get him, and was always running to the teacher with complaints? Chances are he grew up to be a conservative.
At least, he did if he was one of 95 kids from the Berkeley area that social scientists have been tracking for the last 20 years. The confident, resilient, self-reliant kids mostly grew up to be liberals.
The study from the Journal of Research Into Personality isn't going to make the UC Berkeley professor who published it any friends on the right. Similar conclusions a few years ago from another academic saw him excoriated on right-wing blogs, and even led to a Congressional investigation into his research funding.
But the new results are worth a look. In the 1960s Jack Block and his wife and fellow professor Jeanne Block (now deceased) began tracking more than 100 nursery school kids as part of a general study of personality. The kids' personalities were rated at the time by teachers and assistants who had known them for months. There's no reason to think political bias skewed the ratings — the investigators were not looking at political orientation back then. Even if they had been, it's unlikely that 3- and 4-year-olds would have had much idea about their political leanings.
A few decades later, Block followed up with more surveys, looking again at personality, and this time at politics, too. The whiny kids tended to grow up conservative, and turned into rigid young adults who hewed closely to traditional gender roles and were uncomfortable with ambiguity.
The confident kids turned out liberal and were still hanging loose, turning into bright, non-conforming adults with wide interests. The girls were still outgoing, but the young men tended to turn a little introspective.
Block admits in his paper that liberal Berkeley is not representative of the whole country. But within his sample, he says, the results hold. He reasons that insecure kids look for the reassurance provided by tradition and authority, and find it in conservative politics. The more confident kids are eager to explore alternatives to the way things are, and find liberal politics more congenial.
In a society that values self-confidence and out-goingness, it's a mostly flattering picture for liberals. It also runs contrary to the American stereotype of wimpy liberals and strong conservatives.
Of course, if you're studying the psychology of politics, you shouldn't be surprised to get a political reaction. Similar work by John T. Jost of Stanford and colleagues in 2003 drew a political backlash. The researchers reviewed 44 years worth of studies into the psychology of conservatism, and concluded that people who are dogmatic, fearful, intolerant of ambiguity and uncertainty, and who crave order and structure are more likely to gravitate to conservatism. Critics branded it the "conservatives are crazy" study and accused the authors of a political bias.
Jost welcomed the new study, saying it lends support to his conclusions. But Jeff Greenberg, a social psychologist at the University of Arizona who was critical of Jost's study, was less impressed.
------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -----
`I found (the Jack Block study) to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best'
Jeff Greenberg
University of Arizona
------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- -----
"I found it to be biased, shoddy work, poor science at best," he said of the Block study. He thinks insecure, defensive, rigid people can as easily gravitate to left-wing ideologies as right-wing ones. He suspects that in Communist China, those kinds of people would likely become fervid party members.
The results do raise some obvious questions. Are nursery school teachers in the conservative heartland cursed with classes filled with little proto-conservative whiners?
Or does an insecure little boy raised in Idaho or Alberta surrounded by conservatives turn instead to liberalism?
Or do the whiny kids grow up conservative along with the majority of their more confident peers, while only the kids with poor impulse control turn liberal?
Part of the answer is that personality is not the only factor that determines political leanings. For instance, there was a .27 correlation between being self-reliant in nursery school and being a liberal as an adult. Another way of saying it is that self-reliance predicts statistically about 7 per cent of the variance between kids who became liberal and those who became conservative. (If every self-reliant kid became a liberal and none became conservatives, it would predict 100 per cent of the variance). Seven per cent is fairly strong for social science, but it still leaves an awful lot of room for other influences, such as friends, family, education, personal experience and plain old intellect.
For conservatives whose feelings are still hurt, there is a more flattering way for them to look at the results. Even if they really did tend to be insecure complainers as kids, they might simply have recognized that the world is a scary, unfair place.
Their grown-up conclusion that the safest thing is to stick to tradition could well be the right one. As for their "rigidity," maybe that's just moral certainty.
The grown-up liberal men, on the other hand, with their introspection and recognition of complexity in the world, could be seen as self-indulgent and ineffectual.
Whether anyone's feelings are hurt or not, the work suggests that personality and emotions play a bigger role in our political leanings than we think. All of us, liberal or conservative, feel as though we've reached our political opinions by carefully weighing the evidence and exercising our best judgment. But it could be that all of that careful reasoning is just after-the-fact self-justification. What if personality forms our political outlook, with reason coming along behind, rationalizing after the fact?
It could be that whom we vote for has less to do with our judgments about tax policy or free trade or health care, and more with the personalities we've been stuck with since we were kids.
Kurt Kleiner is a Toronto-based science writer
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By AfricaBambaApril 17, 2006 - 6:11pmWaaaaaaaaaaahhh! What's mine is mine, and what's yours
oughta be mine! The great Republican credo goes a long way to explaining the results cited in this study.
One of the personality traits consistently found to underlie anger and poor frustration tolerance in adults is ENTITLEMENT. While Republicans always seem to have it in for entitlement programs, it's frequently because they see them as infringing on THEIR "more legitimate" sense of entitlement.
When it comes from the government on the first of the month, it's a handout. When it comes from the government in the form of a tax shelter, it's good business.
I'm a clinical psychologist, not a social psychologist, but I'd counter professor Greenberg's criticism with the suggestion that instilling a sense of entitlement in kids from a young age (e.g., "you're special" "You are the best" "We are the greatest" and not teaching them to lose once in a while can lead to a serious problem, not only with whining, but with expecting everything to come easily, expecting someone else to bail you out of trouble, and, ultimately, to find someone else to get INTO trouble in the first place. Sound familiar? Used to be the great promise of America was that any kid could grow up to be president. Now, it's the realization of the great American nightmare.
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By davecbtApril 17, 2006 - 8:25pmDave--last sentence--BINGO!
Comic Bill Mahr says, " No, not any kid SHOULD be able to grow up and be president, Dumbya is proof of that"
Buwaaaaaaa haaaaa haaaaaa.....